The Unknown Liberal

November 14, 2012

Jimmy Dore attempts to debunk the Unknown Conservative.

30 Responses to The Unknown Liberal

  1. Stacey THe Fruitbat November 14, 2012 at 11:44 am

    I can’t believe the way Jimmy talks to you. He’s rude and disgusting and could learn a lot from you if he’d stop rambling. He just spews the same old talking points. Only louder.

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  2. Page November 14, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    I discovered David Feldman when I listened to Jimmy and Steph when Todd was still with them. I’m glad I did so now I can stop listening to Jimmy’s show. I understood exactly where David was trying to take his line of questioning, but Jimmy either didn’t care or just wanted to bully David. If this is the way Jimmy talks to people on the air, I’d hate to hear him when he’s not in front of the mic. I thought liberals were kind, and wanted to learn. Jimmy was neither. I’m pretty sure this wasn’t a sketch. Such bile. So sick of alpha males who can’t back it up and just end up yelling.

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  3. Josh November 14, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    You have the patience of a saint.

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  4. H. Mcguire November 14, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    This guy doesn’t listen and interrupts and is all over the place. And I’m a lib.

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  5. Mike November 14, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    I like Jimmy’s comedy but he behaved like a real asshole during this podcast.

    His complete inability to see that fighting reactionary political ideas requires a range of strategies (from voting, to strikes, to demonstrations, to reasoned argument) is depressing.

    He conflates his certainties with absolute truth – not understanding that others have yet to be brought to similar conclusions, and that ranting will only make his ideas appear extreme and unreasonable.

    Many Republicans will only respond to pressure. But there are many supporters who can be won to more progressive positions if those on the left engage with with them. Jimmy’s approach will serve only to make them think the ‘left’ is not really interested in their potential support.

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  6. Andrew Buck November 14, 2012 at 3:24 pm

    Wow, I can’t believe Jimmy stuck it out through that whole interview. David was entirely disingenuous in many of his painfully slow, and overly drawn out questions. The “cup of coffee at the end of the sentence” sums this up perfectly.

    It is one thing to want to understand the points made and the arguments put forth by republicans, but to do what was done here is taking this approach to levels that border on absurdity. The question about whether republicans can be persuaded to vote against their interests by flogging the abortion issue illustrates this perfectly. (There are countless other examples in the show but I will focus on this one as an example) This is a simple question that could have been outlined in 30 seconds and can be (and was) answered easily: yes, many republicans vote against their interests by voting solely based on abortion. This is not groundbreaking news to anyone listening and Jimmy answered it perfectly, the people who are persuaded by a simple trick like this to vote against their interests are ignorant. It is not insulting to call them ignorant because of this, and David’s attempt to make this into an issue illustrates what is wrong with the whole episode: we will not convince republicans by being “nice” to them or calmly listing facts to persuade them as if they were logical people who just needed to be presented with information to make up their mind. Their positions were not arrived at through logic and reason to begin with, so why would you think logic and reason will convince them otherwise.

    Their positions are entirely based on emotion, ignorance, and salesmanship that has been fed to them by the right wing and it is to no one’s benefit to try to reason with them. All you do is give their mistaken point of view validity in the eyes of third parties by acting as if they have a point that actually can be defended. They do not, and we should not even entertain the notion that they do. The proper response to these people is to do exactly what Jimmy suggested, call them on their bullshit, point out their ignorance, and move on. We are not trying (nor do we need to) win over simple minded people like this. The country is starting to move to the left (finally) and the way forward is to call them out in the strongest possible terms to prevent them from spreading their ignorance to others. This is what David totally misses with his “be nice and listen” approach. Yes, you may convert 1% of the people by calmly listening to their position, acknowledging that it comes from some reasonable place, and trying to present them with facts to correct their misconceptions. However, in the process you give their ideas a false veneer of validity in the eyes of third parties and you will lose 10% of them by validating (in their eyes) the absurd point you initially tried to refute. This is why the proper response is exactly what Jimmy said, call them ignorant, point out the flaws in their argument, and move on.

    Kudos to Jimmy for sticking it out and not being cowed by this ridiculous false equivalency: we have our position and they have theirs and both are valid… bullshit. You cannot argue logically with someone who isn’t following the rules and using logic in their own argument.

    I enjoy the David Feldman show, and have not missed an episode since I started listening. Hopefully the nonsensical stance he has taken in this episode will be a a one off event and we can get back to real discussion. Your audience is not made up of children, nor are we easily offended. Don’t try to handle issues with kid gloves, call the ignorant out when the spout their nonsense, and don’t patronize us (and them) by acting as if everyone’s opinions are based on the same sound reasoning, and that we just happen to disagree. I am glad you had a conservative on the show and are interested in a dialog, but don’t fall into their trap of false equivalency. People on the losing side like to say everything is a tie; it’s not. There are winners and losers, there is proper reasoning and nonsense; and no one is served by allowing the side that has no defensible position to call everything a tie, and act as if everyone’s opinion is equally valid. If I want to see two talking heads spew talking points and have the host call it a tie I will watch CNN. I don’t want that, I want reasoned, logical positions, backed up by facts and sound argument.

    Both Jimmy Dore and Kevin Rooney do an excellent job of this. They point out the absurdity, refute it, and move on. They aren’t trying to be mean, but they are not trying to be nice either. Call a spade a spade, and stick to your guns when you have the truth on your side. Hopefully future episodes will return to the format I have come to expect, no nonsense, well thought out discussion of the days events that doesn’t pander to idiots who cannot defend their positions.

    -Buck

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  7. Gwen Forrest November 14, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    One of the reasons I listen to David’s show is to hear calm, thoughtful discussion. David Feldman has great interviews that are always informative. Jimmy Dore is funny, but he wasn’t interested in anything David had to say. When David asked him for specifics on something like Supply Side Economics Jimmy offered nothing. He just screamed things I already heard on Maddow. If I want to hear Maddow, I’ll watch MSNBC. Jimmy needs to stop doing her bits. Maybe if he let David talk he would have picked up something new to spout. David is the most well read original thinkers out there. Which is why he doesn’t need to scream to be heard. Jimmy needs to take a break, he’s a bore.

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  8. chuck November 14, 2012 at 4:35 pm

    Hunh? “No disrespect”, as they say, but am I to take the comments above to indicate that listeners are taking this episode seriously? Jimmy needs to calm down and remember what he’s mad about, and whom is the real source of his frustration. And you, David, need to stop jerking Jimmy’s chain.

    Perhaps in the post election glow you both have forgotten that if Obama had been born white, he would have been the republican candidate. The driving force against him was nothing but prejudice and racism, and, barring an epiphanic awakening, people do not shed their blind prejudices when confronted by well reasoned argument. It took legislation, the Supreme Court, and the National Guard to accomplish integration (to the degree that it has been accomplished). It turns out that three (four?) generations after the Emancipation Proclamation the racists are just as rabid as they were in 1863.

    While the health care reform act may turn out to be a good thing, so far the accomplishment for which Obama will be most known was getting elected.

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  9. T.M. November 14, 2012 at 4:56 pm

    Oh please, this show sucked. And it’s because of Jimmy Dore. I agree with everything Jimmy says, no matter how many times he says it, which is over and over and over and over and over. But it’s just tired liberal tropes he gathered from Air America. Shouting and screaming other people’s talking points makes those talking points sound stupid and ignorant. He’s a belligerent pacifist who cares more about venting than he does solving problems. Feldman is a bit of a contrarian, and can be annoying, I admit, but he’s the most original comedy mind out there. It’s why Maher cried when he quit. Jimmy’s lucky to get to talk to the Jew. Instead he interrupts him like an angry drunk. More Rooney.

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  10. E.E. Abrams November 14, 2012 at 5:04 pm

    Feldman got exactly what he wanted, all you assholes worked up. The biggest asshole being Jimmy Dore. Jimmy thinks he’s the only one who reads Talking Points memo. We get it Jimmy. Romney’s a liar. Wow. Thanks for the insight. I’ve been looking forward to Feldman’s post mortum on the election, and instead Jimmy interrupted him every step of the way. I turned it off. Feldman being the devils’s advocate is far more interesting than Dore acting and thinking like a child. Too bad he was so polite to Jimmy. Jimmy makes me ashamed to be a democrat and in many ways was far more aggravating than the Unknown Conservative. At least that guy listens, and is polite. And reads.

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  11. Harold From Da Bronks November 14, 2012 at 5:10 pm

    David give up on Dore. He’s rude, and if you put a million in his bank account he’d be spouting republican bullshit. He’s obviously gunning for some job on the cesspool that is am radio. Club comic who, as you kind of said, clubs people over the head. Less interested in making people think. This was a painful show. I listened all the way through, and it gave me a tightness in my chest. I have a father like him who cares more about screaming than what he’s screaming about. Bring back Nathan Lane or Martin Short or Kevin Rooney or Dom Irerrra. You show respect for everyone Mr. Feldman, and there’s no need for you to feel you have to be insulted by someone who thinks its a sport.

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  12. Fred Lamarche November 14, 2012 at 5:29 pm

    Wow! Jimmy Dore read Howard Zinn. I am so impressed! He’s so smart. Dore says he reads economists. Gummo or Zeppo Marx? Most of us listen to Feld Jew to laugh and learn. Jimmy Dore should give it a try. Especially the learning part. What a rude motherfucking asshole. Thanks for ruining the only thing that makes my commute tolerable. Jimmy Dore is just another barking cocksucker who’s has no idea how to carry on a conversation. Must be a real hit parties. Asshole. World class asshole.

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  13. Doctor of Mathematics November 14, 2012 at 10:57 pm

    This isn’t specific to this podcast, but David, your podcast is my favorite podcast. I’ve been listening for quite a while, and it’s really been great. You’re not not only funny and informative, but there’s something about your dynamic with other people that is just mesmerizing. Your friends/interviewees are constantly surprised when met with someone of superior emotional intelligence. Ah, it’s addicting…

    P.S. About this specific podcast, of course you ran loops around Jimmy. But you didn’t have to, and ultimately it does amount to bullying. He was just trying to protect his reputation, and you should have realized it and stopped. Also, now we didn’t get to hear the reputations! I was looking forward to those. That said, it was fantastically fun to listen to.

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  14. drewmellow November 14, 2012 at 11:23 pm

    I love both of these guys and what I heard was a raw emotional discussion between friends – that may have gotten slightly out of hand from time to time. It was not unlike some of the heated discussions I’ve had recently in this emotionally charged political climate. I hope all wounds heal and we continue getting awesome content from both of these gentlemen. You both are great at what you do. We need more content like yours definitely not less!

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  15. Buck Jones November 15, 2012 at 3:15 am

    At the risk of sounding like a wishy-washy liberal, I actually think both David and Jimmy have points that I agree with. My interpretation of the show was that it was mainly “theatre of the absurd” since it was obvious that David was pushing Jimmy’s buttons (and Jimmy, as the battered spouse, was unsuccessful in responding in kind) and got the over-the-top performance of Jimmy wailing. I don’t believe that David was advocating trying to find a bi-partisan solution to our problems, something that those of us on the left are frustrated with Obama for in his dealings with the obstructionist Republicans on Capital Hill. Rather, with those people, the proverbial “Kansan”, who are on the right, David is advocating a reasoned, respectful debate on the issues. If it can be done in a humorous format (Jimmy’s point), even better.

    My own personal history attests to the success of this approach. Perhaps I’m an outlier, but it was 20 years ago when I was living in Alameda county in the SF east bay. I was a recent university graduate, coming from rural and conservative South Carolina. I was an active evangelical Christian (meaning, pro-life, and went to church multiple times during the week), but also listened to the Alex Bennett show on the radio in the mornings, which is where I first heard the comedy stylings of David Feldman, Dana Gould, and other progressive comics. It was my first exposure to “liberalism” and the ideas that emanated from intelligent (and funny) personalities of the Left. Thus began my long road from the barren wastelands of the conservative right to where I am today, an American ex-pat living in Paris who is solidly Democratic and liberal (and avid listener to both David and Jimmy).

    I enjoyed the show with the Unknown Conservative more than this past episode (if only because it reminded me of where I came from), and I think that reasoned and humorous dialogue between the Right and the Left can be effective in converting those in the middle or not completely wedded to one issue. I love Jimmy’s show, and I hope that he continues doing what he is good at, giving acidic rebuttals to the lies promulgated from the Right. But I also like David’s approach in attempting to have a more sober debate of ideas. Each has merit and value.

    Keep up the fight and the good work!

    Reply
  16. Alun a bemused brit November 15, 2012 at 5:37 am

    For the first few minutes I thought this was just a bit that was going far too long like the Eddie pepitone hurricane sandy calls the other week(needless slam I know). I don’t tend to criticize podcasts as I realize the effort that goes into them but I had to stop by and side with jimmy. For many months I have been frustrated with the way in which david feldman constantly interrupted jimmy when he was making interesting points so he could ponderously repeat the some point he’d already made another 5 times. As another poster mentioned I just hope david was being deliberately disingenuous and provocative in this episode because he had to understand the points jimmy was trying to make as I’ve heard david make the same arguments about david gregory and the like. I had to give up on this episode halfway through after listening to david repeatedly interrupt jimmy well thought out answer about voters in Kansas just so David could make the same point over and over and over……

    Just because you speak in a measured tone Mr feldman doesn’t make you correct or Superior just see the spurious “adults in the room” logic used by tv pundits.

    Anyway I give up on this podcast and will just listen the jimmy dore show as I listen to podcasts to be entertained not annoyed beyond belief.

    Ps. If jimmy reads this thanks as you said in this episode you have indeed provided me with many salient and well reasoned points with which to counter some of my more strident conservative friends.

    Reply
  17. Jon November 15, 2012 at 6:30 am

    You should be embarrased.

    You performed a 1h+ monologue in the form of endless leading questions, quickly interrupting when the answer didn’t go your way, capping it with a smug, patronising ‘sing-songy’ vocal tone throughout.

    When you don’t let a guest answer the question it’s not a discussion, it’s an interrogation.

    Even worse, you did it to a friend. Real classy Dave.

    The people you are talking about don’t want to have reasonable discussions on the issues. They know the evidence doesn’t support them.
    They’ll happily talk about their points as long as you don’t hold them to the facts (as you didn’t with your friend ‘the unknown conservative’). But there is no real discussion without facts. If we have a discussion about the Sun and I am talking about the giant yellow star in the sky, and the other guy is talking about a small plastic blue square on the table in front of him we are not talking about the same thing.
    I think you’ll find the same goes for the guy who takes his reasoning for the abortion issue from science, and the other guy who takes his from the bible. They’re not talking about the same thing.

    I hope you’ll be successful if you still choose to follow this approach, but I don’t think you will be. And I’ll be skipping those episodes.

    I believe a successful way to win is to appeal to your base, not appeal to the other side. Crazy eh?
    But then again, Obama just won an election doing that!

    Reply
  18. Mike Hunt November 15, 2012 at 6:35 am

    I’ve listened to the first 15 min. of “Feldman Fights Back”.
    It only reenforces what I feel you did in the show with Jimmy.
    You invited him on under the pretense that he would be able to refute some of the nonsense from “The Unknown Conservative”.
    Then you bullied and condescended every position he tried to engage.
    Had you taken the same posture with the Conservative, how would that have worked out?
    You set Jimmy Dore up, and let’s remember, there would be no David Feldman podcast, without Jimmy Dore.

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  19. Seth November 15, 2012 at 8:42 am

    Wow. I love both you guys. Peace out!

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  20. Patrick in Atlanta November 15, 2012 at 9:58 am

    I agree with Jimmy 100%. All you folks that are complaining about Jimmy being out of line and that David was reasonable, is the biggest problem with liberals. We need to start fighting back. Jimmy’s whole point is that David had his friend on and he never challenged him on his nonsense! That is the problem with all the media right now which is that conservatives are living in a bubble and we all know it. If I wanted to hear a conservative spew nonsense and never be taken to task I would watch Meet the Press! They never get challenged on their beliefs, even when you catch them backtracking they don’t get called on it. The only place that I can go to see conservatives even remotely put to the mat is the daily show and Bill Mahr, and those are freaking comedy shows for goodness sake! No one on these sunday talk shows or the papers are challenging these ideas with facts. People need to wake up and the time to be civil with republicans is done. That is why people don’t want to be liberal, they think we are a bunch of sissies that can be pushed around.

    The republicans have spent 30 years building a belief system, it is not an ideology! These people believe things that have been constantly debunked and are utter falsehoods. Ok so we are not going to change their way of thinking by holding hands and singing kumby-ya. What Jimmy and myself want is for people to be called out on their bull-Shoot. Ann Culter, Rush, Hannity and all these guys should be challenged when they say things that are not true! not be given a mega-phone to say it over and over again. This isn’t an opinion for these people, it is a belief! and Belief’s are almost impossible to change, that is why the right wing prays on the most vulnerable to accepting a belief system, religious people.
    P.S.
    Here is a tip David next time a conservative says “that it is all about freedom” for why they are conservative. Say: “Freedom? Accept for women, gays and minorities. Right?”

    Reply
  21. Rag November 15, 2012 at 10:00 am

    >>Then you bullied and condescended every position he tried to engage.
    Had you taken the same posture with the Conservative, how would that have worked out?

    This was my main beef w/ the whole thing:
    David politely let the Unknown Conservative get all his talking points out, but when Jimmy came on, he challenged and provoked him at every step….the opposite of what he did with Ned.

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  22. Garrtt Burt November 15, 2012 at 11:58 am

    It’s possible to sound calm and pensive and still be a jerk. This episode seemed to me to be intentionally designed to make a monkey out of Jimmy Dore.

    David doesn’t like Jimmy’s style. And, yes, he was provoking Jimmy. I also getting sense that there’s some contrarianism going on with David. I’ve felt that for a long time now. For some reason, he wants to show that Jimmy’s stridency and passion are wrong but it isn’t a matter of right or wrong. Jimmy’s passion will lead him to mistakes, that’s for sure but it’s what propels him and I think it will likely take him very far. And I honestly prefer it to David’s suppressed rage that he tries to masquerade as calmness. David, you’re an angry man. Every bit as angry as Jimmy. There’s nothing wrong with it and there are better ways to express it than trying to make your friends look like fools.

    Jimmy is fighting a battle that he thinks is worth fighting. Perhaps, his tactics will change if they need to, perhaps not. He’s got fire in his gut and my dime store psychologizing is that maybe David is a little envious of this. Because David’s attitude seems to be one of resignation. His calmness is not a byproduct of wisdom but rather one of weariness. He’s done fighting and now he wants to converse. But I maintain that this is not because he’s suddenly transformed into a wise elder statesmen of the left but, rather, it’s because he’s become stretched thin. I apologize if that sounds unduly harsh but I’m speaking form the heart here.

    When all’s said and done, I deeply appreciate the intelligence and humor of both of these people. David frequently makes points that I’ve never considered before and he always makes me laugh. I truly think that what occurred on this show is beneath him. I hope he and Jimmy can find a way past this.

    Reply
  23. Fishguy November 16, 2012 at 10:51 pm

    David:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktYwuw9Mnjo

    ;-)

    Reply
  24. David November 18, 2012 at 10:56 am

    being arrogant and confident in is own self belief makes Jimmy Dore sound like ho.. foxes most right wing nut, only Jimmy
    would be more at home in Russia during the programs,he
    would have been in is element.
    over the years i have seen many left wingnuts like Jimmy
    and nothing good ever came with them.
    he is more dangerous than any right nut.

    Reply
  25. David November 19, 2012 at 9:27 am

    I have to apologize for my earlier comment i was writing
    from anger and that is just what Jimmy does,not good.

    I was a fan until this,ho well

    Reply
    • David Feldman November 20, 2012 at 5:15 pm

      Hey, it’s just a bunch of idiots mouthing off. We all say things we don’t mean.

      Reply
  26. Patrick in Atlanta November 20, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    “being arrogant and confident in is own self belief makes Jimmy Dore sound like ho.. foxes most right wing nut, only Jimmy
    would be more at home in Russia during the programs,he
    would have been in is element.
    over the years i have seen many left wingnuts like Jimmy
    and nothing good ever came with them.
    he is more dangerous than any right nut.”

    Just wondering if you have any examples of dangerous left wingnuts? Or any facts to back up these assertions? cause that is what right wing nuts actually do, they say things that have no basis in reality or base their evidence on false equivilancies.

    Reply
  27. Ford of The Lies November 24, 2012 at 7:42 pm

    This was a great show. Everyone needs to calm down. David and Jimmy are obviously friends, and they both care about each other and this country. Thanks for this and Jimmy’s show. You keep us sane.

    Reply
  28. Perry Thomas September 21, 2013 at 9:37 am

    This was one of my all-time favorite podcasts of yours! I wish you would have had (or will have ) a dozen more with you two fleshing out some of your finer progressive points! More Dore! Thanks David for all you put out there! Keep up the good work!

    Reply
    • David Feldman September 21, 2013 at 4:28 pm

      Wow, you’re going deep into the catalogue. This is from 2012, right? Does it hold up?

      Reply

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